#48: How to be an ally to a community you don't belong to [Podcast] - Jenn T. Grace—Book Publisher, Speaker, and Author Skip to the content

#48: How to be an ally to a community you don’t belong to [Podcast]

Today’s podcast addresses specifically how to be an ally to a community you are not necessarily a part of. I train LGBT allies on a daily basis and successfully I might add. 😉 But I had an epiphany recently. How does one enter the world of being an ally where they don’t know where to start? I talk about this as it relates to LGBT allies but it wasn’t until recent where I’ve been struggling to find my way as an ally to the black community that it truly hit me with how intimidating and daunting this can be. Allies are critical to any group of people and the concepts are universal. In this episode you’ll hear my struggles of what an ally means to me and how I am trying to be a better ally to a community that I am not a part of – and how you can be too! Enjoy listening and as always, I would truly love to hear your thoughts on this.

Links mentioned in today’s podcast:


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AUDIO TITLE: Episode #48 – How to Be an Ally to a Community You Don’t Belong To

You are listening to the Gay Business and Marketing Made Easy Podcast, Episode 48.


Welcome to the Gay Business and Marketing Made Easy Podcast where you’ll learn how to do business with and market to the LGBT community in an authentic and transparent way. We’re talking about the $790 billion lesbian, gay, bi-sexual and transgender community. We’ll help you grow your business, gain market share and impact your bottom line. And now your host – she’s an entrepreneur, a marketing maven and an advocate for the LGBT business community. Jenn, with two N’s, T. Grace.

What’s on the agenda for today..

Well hello and welcome to Episode Number 48 of the Gay Business and Marketing Made Easy Podcast. I am your host, Jenn Grace, and we are in December 2014 and I just want to say Happy Holidays to those of you celebrating holidays during this lovely time of year. And I have a- I almost feel like I might end up just going completely rogue from what I had planned for today’s episode airing on December 11, 2014. I have a whole list of things that ideally I would like to cover in today’s episode but there’s just a couple of things that are on my mind that are weighing me down significantly and I feel like I have a trusting audience, and I feel like it might not be a bad idea to share with you a couple of those things. So I will end up I think, covering a couple of the things that I wanted to actually cover in today’s episode, I have some information on a recent article that went out about my business, I have some updates on book number three that I’ve been kind of been teasing in my social media. I wanted to touch base on the CEI, which is the Corporate Equality Index put out by the Human Rights Campaign, and in that I wanted to update you specifically on Barilla Pasta. If you recall I did an episode awhile ago which I will include in today’s show notes, that you can go back and take a listen to, and I’ve also talked about Barilla on webinars of mine in the past about what PR tragedy they had in September of 2013 and I have some interesting updates on their progress, which is kind of interesting. And then I wanted to share a touching note that I received from someone who is just kind of following my stuff, and it’s kind of one of those warm and friendly types of things.


So that was basically what I had on my agenda to talk with you today, and while it might seem like a long, lengthy list, they all kind of ducktail into one another so it’s not really that bad. However I do feel the need to go rogue and address what is happening in present day, December 2014, and if you’re listening to this podcast and it’s years from now, I am truly in my heart of hearts hoping that there is something has changed from what is currently taking place in the United States. And what I’m talking about is the- and I don’t even know where to start and I don’t want to get myself in trouble by saying things incorrectly or inappropriately, but what I’m talking about is everything that’s going on in Ferguson, Missouri, what’s happening in Cleveland, Ohio, it’s happening in New York City, New York. And if I could do a hashtag audio-wise, I would be doing #blacklivesmatter. And I’ve been following it very, very closely with what is happening in the United States with racial profiling and the term being thrown out continuously over and over again around ‘white privilege.’ And I can tell you to be perfectly honest that I am actually embarrassed at this juncture in the road to be someone who is white, living in the United States. Which probably seems really dramatic and completely extreme but I’m really, truly embarrassed by counterparts that are in the country who are doing such terrible things and it’s an atrocity that it is happening right now in the United States. And I know that this blog and podcast and everything that I do talks about LGBT; and I very rarely talk about the racial issues that we have in the United States, I don’t talk all that much about gender issues that are also happening in the United States. But through watching what’s happening I get goosebumps and I get chills just watching the amount of protests and how they keep doubling and quadrupling and they’re happening everywhere. And it’s inspiring to me to see so many people who are out there fighting for what they believe in. And this would be absolutely no different if it were LGBT people doing this, I would be just as- of course I would be just as inspired to see LGBT people fighting for what they believe in. But just seeing this widespread, I’m hoping will cause some sort of change in our culture; although given the state of the United States on so many levels, sometimes I feel like there’s no hope for us. We’re so backward in so many ways. And the fact that it’s 2014 and these problems are still happening in our country it just completely blows my mind. And some of the things I never talk about on this podcast are that I do diversity consulting more broadly than just LGBT, so I work with an organization who specifically focuses on diversity; primarily women and people of color. So this is something that I am very exposed to on a day-to-day basis, and hearing from colleagues of mine who are black and who are in the diversity space who are out there on a daily basis out there training corporate America, training big business on how to be more inclusive in their cultures around being a woman, being African America, being Hispanic, whatever it happens to be within the workplace. And to hear some of their stories about just when their son or husband leaves, and not knowing what’s going to happen. Like I can’t even wrap my head around what that must feel like. And the fact that that’s happening in our country right now is just absolutely mind-blowing to me, and it’s so frustrating. And the way I want to tie this back into LGBT, and the reason why I kind of wanted to go rogue and off-script today, and not that I actually have a script per say, but just off my topics that I wanted to cover; is that as I’m sitting here and watching everything happening, and talking to friends of mine who are out there with signs and on the capital and just trying to get their voice heard, or just even watching some of the hashtags on Twitter, it is just mind-blowing, it’s eye-opening, and there’s just so much going on. And then I’m sitting back thinking, “How can I be an ally to the black community and use my “white privilege” to help move this movement for my black friends and colleagues forward?” And to be perfectly honest I don’t have an answer to that. I wish I had a really strong ‘This is what I need to do to be an ally to this community,’ and I don’t have an answer to it. And it’s interesting because I think about how much this is upsetting to me, and it’s upsetting to my family and it’s upsetting to everyone that’s in my immediate circle, and yet I go onto Facebook and it’s so not talked about in the white community; or at least in my Facebook feed. And that could be completely different for yours and I’m not here to be casting judgment on anybody or saying that everybody needs to be involved; these are just my thoughts and my opinions of what’s happening right now. But when I look at my feed and I don’t see people who are like me commenting on this it really makes me even more irate. And I just associate that with the thought of LGBT people and allies to the LGBT community. So I know a lot of you listening to this are allies to the LGBT community, and what I start to think about is how did you as an ally take that first step to put yourself in a position where you are “the minority,” so if you are going to an LGBT networking event and it’s a room full of LGBT people and you are the one, two, three random straight people there, how did you get the courage to enter that room for the first time and be able to stand up and say to somebody, “I’m an ally to your community. Your community is important to me.” And I’m really looking for examples from people, and I want to hear from you. So send me a note on Twitter, Facebook, the website, you name it. Just find a way to share your story with me because it seems that there is a very clear, close connection between being an ally to the black community as a white person, or anyone other than black, and being an ally to the LGBT community. And mind you this is not a complete direct comparison so I don’t want this to turn into burning me at the stake for things that I am or am not saying; but I just would love to know what it took to just stand up and say, “You know what? I’m an LGBT ally.” Because if I’m thinking, and mind you this is the space in the world in which I live, and I eat, breathe and sleep diversity daily. And most of the time it’s LGBT diversity but as I said in the beginning, it’s also all other diversities as well. So if I’m over here struggling thinking how can I best make my use of my time as an ally to this community, then I can’t even fathom what the average person is thinking, or not thinking. So I’m just really curious because I see there’s such a strong comparison between the two groups, and it’s between any group that’s disenfranchised in some way, shape or form. So you can have- everyone needs an ally. So it could even be, like if you’re thinking about the workplace, and you have men and women in the workplace, and a lot of times the women to succeed (and I hate even saying it), need allies, need male allies, to help get them through the ranks. So we all need an ally for some reason or another. So you know if you are a straight, white man listening to this, you could easily need an ally just from your peers to help you move forward through your company, your business, whatever it happens to be. Of course there’s so much more need for allies for basically everybody else.

What are your thoughts?

So I just really want to hear from you. I really, I want to know what’s on your mind. If by being an ally to the LGBT group, LGBT community, that is a marginalized group; does what’s happening in our society as it relates to Ferguson, Cleveland, Kansas City, New York, all of what’s going on. Is something- I don’t know. I just want to hear from you. If you’re thinking about it too, just based on the fact that you consider yourself to be an ally to another marginalized group. And is this something that’s conscious to you? Because I’m not really sure, and I just want to know from people, and I feel like this isn’t going to stop anytime soon and I truly hope that the peaceful protests and shutting down of highways in major cities and causing somewhat of chaos, I’m perfectly content with that continuing if it can help make change. Because ultimately that’s why we’re here; we’re here to make change for a group that we are not part of. And I’m not talking specifically about what’s happening with Ferguson but I’m just saying in general, like with LGBT and you listening to this. Like you’re listening to this because you want to know how to market to the LGBT community better, you want to know how to communicate more appropriately, and you want to know how to sell to the LGBT community. But for all of those reasons, it could be the fact because you are an ally and you want to make sure that you are doing it right. So, and you’re leveraging your status as an ally in the best way possible.

So that’s kind of where I’m at. It seems like such a heavy topic and I’m even nervous publishing this but I’m going to anyway because it’s just something that is so deeply weighing on my mind, and I have conversations internally with people, and it’s weighing on their minds too. So I just want to know where you stand and what your thoughts are. And of course you can shoot me an email privately or Facebook message privately, and if you want to share any of your opinions you could completely disagree with me, and I’m a very reasonable and rational person, so if you do disagree with me that is perfectly fine. I would like to have a discussion about it though, I would be really curious to see. And if you don’t want your name being named, which I don’t usually name names on the podcast anyway unless somebody specifically says I can. But if you want to just share any thoughts that you’re having, and just make a note that you want to remain anonymous, that’s completely fine. But I would like to do an update in the next podcast episode, which coincidentally will be airing on Christmas Day for those of you celebrating Christmas. So it will be an interesting topic to be discussing on a joyous, or supposedly joyous occasion for most.

So.. about my short hiatus from training….

So yeah, that’s where I’m at. Let’s see I’m about twelve minute in to my ramblings. But yeah that’s the one thing I wanted to talk about. The other thing that’s weighing on my mind is that I- so you know I ran my half marathon at the beginning of November and I took a short hiatus of just about three weeks of just saying, ‘You know what I am done training for awhile, I need to slow my roll,’ like training for anything is just exhausting. So I’m like, ‘You know what I’m going to take three weeks off.’ So I started back up on Monday, a week ago Monday, to go back to the gym and it is crazy to be perfectly honest, at how much better I feel. Like I didn’t even realize I felt bad but jeez. It’s crazy like how much better I feel now that I’m just back in the swing of things and exercising, and it’s interesting because I’m talking about like health and wellness, and I suppose this is the time of year to be discussing these types of things because I feel like in December, maybe not necessarily December but come January everybody’s like, “I’m on a diet, I’m going to start exercising,” and we know the statistics of that are usually not in anyone’s favor with the amount of people who actually fall off the wagon. But I wanted to just kind of reframe things for you.

So I am quite health at this juncture in the road, and I’ve had times in the past where I was not even close to being this healthy, and I can include a link to a blog post that I wrote a couple of years ago that kind of set me out on this path of just being more healthy; mentally, physically, emotionally, et cetera. And I didn’t realize what an actual blessing it is to be able to go out and run, and be able to do physical exercise because my body is physically allowing me to do so. And I recently found out that an old friend of mine from high school, we were on the bus together and we were friends on and off for a couple of years, and I just found out- and mind you she’s only 32, so she’s a year younger than I am, that she has an aggressive form of breast cancer which is at stage four and she’s 32, it spread to her spine and she’s pregnant, and she is in a complete and utter crisis mode of ‘what do I do?’ Like it almost- and I don’t know all of the details of the story but it seems like- it looks grim I guess is what I’m trying to say. And they’re doing like a kickstarter type of campaign for her so of course I’ve donated some money to just at least help out in terms of getting her childcare around the clock to care for her one year old. And it’s a whole thing, and while she is not someone I have spoken to in a very long time, it is someone that I was friends with back in the day and to have a diagnosis of such severity at such a young age, it’s one of those things that kind of like jolts you into some sort of perspective about life in general. Like are you making the best of your day today? Are you doing your best? Are you treating people around you the best way that you possibly can? And that’s kind of- between the whole Ferguson thing happening and between this, I feel like I just feel so heavy and weighed down lately. And it seems so cliche but it’s like the whole meaning of life type of stuff coming up. It’s like why does it happen that somebody who was so young has such adversity thrown at them? And how incredibly grateful and incredibly lucky I am to be able to get up and go to the gym this morning before I hit record on today’s podcast. And to be able to be sitting here and hitting record on a podcast and sharing my message with you and hopefully inspiring you to do better in your business, and to be more efficient in your LGBT marketing; but I feel like these are things that we drastically take for granted. To be able to just get up in the morning, that our eyes open, that our feet move, that we were able to get our lives to bring us from our bed to wherever we need to be. I feel like it’s some of those things that you never really realize how grateful and how fortunate you are to have these things, until something that hits so close to home is, it just kind of jars you and startles you.

Reframing things..

So again, here’s me going rogue on two completely unrelated to- well the first one’s related to my business, but this one is not so much other than the fact that I personally feel weighed down by this. And as you’re looking to the new year and you’re trying to plan what your business is going to be looking like in 2015, if you’re going to be adding products or services, or taking some away, or refining things, or just making your business better. I feel like it’s helpful to have a frame of reference to think, “Wow. This could be where I am right now.” So I know for me I had a job, and I think I might have talked about this on a past podcast episode, but I had a job where I worked in a factory and I welded expansion tanks for hot water heaters. And if you don’t know what one of those looks like, feel free to hop over to my website and go to the about page because I do have a picture of one of those delightful little gems that I used to weld. And those were long hours, I got paid I want to say it was like $9.00 an hour; back then $9.00 an hour was good, I worked the second shift. I burnt my arms to all holy hell at one point or another, I was missing arm hair most of the time. It was not a good conducive working environment in any way, shape or form. There was four women out of hundreds of men in this factory, and the women that were there were all in their mid- I’d say mid to late-forties to sixties, and then there was me in my teens, early twenties. And when I have moments where I’m like, “Uhh, this is not fun for me. Like why am I doing what I’m doing at the moment? Like if I’m doing something administrative focused or like data entry and I just want to bang my head against a wall because I’m like, ‘I don’t know why I have to do this.’ Because as business owners we wear so many different hats that you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do to get the job done. But I feel like given the things that are weighing me down as of late, it really just helps put into perspective because I think about this all the time, where I could be sitting here thinking, ‘Why am I entering 50 business cards into the CRM when I have better things to do, but I just happen to need to do it at the moment.’ And I think, ‘Oh yeah, I could be working in a factory again, and I could be welding expansion tanks for hot water heaters right now.’ And I really feel like that was one of the most pivotal jobs, and I’ve had so many random side jobs. My own businesses that I was starting at a young age, like all sorts of random things I’ve done; but that was probably the most pivotal one, because it’s my frame of reference. It’s my personal frame of reference of when something sucks today, I’m not happy with what I’m doing or why I’m doing it, I always go back to, ‘Well you know what? I could be working at midnight right now and I could be welding pieces of metal together.’ And it’s one of those things that to me, that’s always where I drive back to. So now having this recent news of just somebody being so young with such a grim diagnosis, it makes me think like, ‘Wow, what is my point of reference?’ Like my point of reference is the fact that I got up today, I was able- all of my body functions, I was able to go to the gym, I was able to exercise and feel great, and come back and hit record on the podcast.

So I want to just challenge you to be thinking about what your frame of reference is for the upcoming year. So what are you trying to accomplish in 2015? What are your goals for your business in 2015? And how does marketing to the LGBT community, selling to the LGBT community, how does that all factor in to that bigger picture of what you plan on doing in 2015?

Webinar coming up!

I have a webinar coming up in January, and I highly recommend to hop over to JennTGrace.com/webinar and find out the information for that because it’s actually a different webinar than I normally do, and it’s actually going to talk about creating that plan. Like creating your big picture vision and plan for what you’re going to do as a business owner, as it relates to marketing to the LGBT community in 2015. So I’ll give some practical tips and advice and all that kind of fun stuff on basically what I think can at least get you started in the right direction; because we want to start off 2015 on a positive note. Well I know I do at least, I can’t imagine that you do not want to as well. So definitely check out the fact that I do have a webinar coming up that kind of ducktails into all of this about just kind of resetting, restarting, using 2015 as a new beginning as it always is, and just think about big picture; what you want to accomplish in 2015. What are your goals as it relates to LGBT marketing, communications, business, all that kind of great stuff.

So that was also not something on my agenda that I planned on mentioning, and voila! Here I am mentioning it, so I’m three for three right now.

Let’s see. So switching away from more of the grim topics, I am going to hop into a commercial. We’ll just do a quick commercial break and then when we come back I have just a couple of other things that I want to talk about, and then I will bid you a adieu. So hang tight and I will be right back.

Okay, so I’m happy that you heard from the sponsor of this podcast; the Human Performance Academy and MentalCompass.com. They’re great people and if you are wondering about what you’re going to do in 2015 and how you’re going to grow your business generally speaking, I definitely recommend checking out their podcast. So please, please go ahead and do that.

And now I want to talk about two other things. I’m actually going to leave the update on Barilla Pasta and the Corporate Equality Index for another episode. They’re both- it’s just a really in depth topic and I don’t want this podcast episode today to go on to an ungodly length of time. So we will check that out, probably in a January episode. Because I think the Christmas episode, or the December 25th episode, I want to talk about just kind of 2015 planning a little bit more. But who knows what will happen; I change my mind often so I guess it will be a crap shoot what you get on the next episode.

My heartfelt little note from someone..

So anyway, what I do want to talk to you about briefly is that I received such a heartfelt quick little note from someone, and I’m not going to call this person’s name out but let me- I’m just going to replace her name and say, we’ll say Chris. I know a ton of Chris’s so we’ll just say Chris.

And it says- and I received this through my contact form and it just says, “Hi, My name is Chris and I’m a mentor for a youth group in my local area. One of the kids that I mentor wanted to give you a shoutout and send you a virtual high five on your inspirational page. She’s been struggling and your resources have helped her cope with her sexuality, so thank you. She also wanted to send you a page that she found very helpful as well. She figured it’d be a great resource to add with your other resources on your pages. Do you mind adding it? She would feel great knowing it would benefit other kids and teens just like her. We’d love to hear any feedback you have, maybe even a high five back. Thank you for your time, Chris.”

So I got this- it was probably, maybe a couple of weeks ago, Chris had sent this over to me. And it’s just one of those things that is so touching to be making an impact on people that you aren’t expecting to make an impact on. So for example just making an impact on a teenager. You know I have a resources page on the website, it’s just JennTGrace.com/resources, and it just has a ton of link on it with organizations that I’m aware of, people I’ve interviewed in the past, like what their businesses are, corporations that are pro-LGBT, it just has a hodge podge of resources. So it’s nice that they were able to find that page and it actually is benefitting somebody that is not my core audience. You know my core audience is you the listener, who most of the time (and if you are not part of the core audience, please let me know because I want to know you’re listening) but typically it is business owners and it is allies to the LGBT community, or it is LGBT business owners themselves. So I imagine that you’re probably falling into one of those two buckets but if not and you are a kid or a teenager listening to this, I would love to hear from you. I really, truly would because if you are listening to this it means that you are paying attention to business and your future; so it’s pretty interesting. So I would love to hear from you.

What kind of impact is your business trying to make?

But I just wanted to share that with all of you because I know that you individually in your businesses are also trying to make an impact, and trying to make a difference for people, and it’s nice to see when that actually happens because it’s so hard to get people to send an email, or send you- I guess Facebook and Twitter, those are a lot easier to get people to make notes on. But it’s hard to get people to leave feedback and comment to you. So when I do get it, which it does come in pretty often, but when I do get things like this I just get really excited and I think, “I am making a difference,” and I truly, truly enjoy that. So again, I just wanted to mention that to you.

Hartford Courant article..

And then finally, and this is actually going to be a short episode. I didn’t even curse myself in the beginning as I usually do by saying it is and then it’s not. But this is actually going to be a short episode because the last thing I wanted to talk about quickly, is that I had an article go out in the Hartford Courant, and I believe it was about a month ago now. I want to say it was probably close to a month ago, but I hadn’t had the link to it as of the last podcast episode. So I want to encourage you to go to my website and go to JennTGrace.com and if you’re listening to this in anywhere in the timeframe of December through March or April of 2014-2015, then you will see it, but it’s prominently on my home page. So if you go to my home page it’s one of the banners that kind of flips through in the beginning. And there’s a link to get to this particular article. But also if you click on the speaking page, I have a link to it as well that pops you over to the Hartford Courant, which is who did the recent article and it’s titled ‘Professional Lesbian Grows Her Marketing Business with Books and Online Content.’ And I think I had mentioned on the show a couple of- it was probably a couple of episodes ago, after she actually left my house from being interviewed which was kind of fun too. So it’s definitely, it’s an interesting article. She did not share any of it with me prior to actually publishing it, so I was a little bit nervous not knowing what was going to happen; but she did a pretty cool job and it doesn’t really focus solely on my business but it focuses on my family and me as a person, and it’s a little bit exposing if you will. But you know, as a loyal follower and listener of this podcast I want you to see these things and I want you to know about them. So definitely go check it out, and if you have any thoughts or comments on it of course just let me know. Because you know I always love a good dialogue between you and me, regardless of what it’s about.

Book number three in the works…

So okay, I lied. It’s still not going to be a long episode but I lied. The other thing I wanted to mention is about book number three that I have as a work in progress. I was in Washington DC a couple of weeks ago for the NGLCC National Dinner, which is an amazing event if you have not been to it I highly recommend it. Their website is NGLCC.org and they have all their information on it. But it’s a black tie gala, it’s about 900 people, it’s in the National Museum Building in Washington DC, and it’s just an amazing time. But with that event I was flying down, I was taking the train home but I happened to be flying down, and in my mind any time I’m on a plane I am writing. It’s just immediately where I go, I could have a million other things to be doing in my business. I do not connect to WiFi, I just get on the plane and I open up my writing app and I just get started. So I am pleased to say that I actually started writing the third book. And it is a complete work in progress, I have just maybe scratched the surface of like skeletal structure of like kind of what I want to include in it. But I do want you to know that the specifics of the book, from what I can tell, is going to be so far is that I want this book to be aimed toward the LGBT business owner. And really how to leverage yourself as someone who is LGBT and owns a business. And the way I’m going to frame it, it’s actually going to ducktail into a fourth book which will come out in 2016, but I just want anybody who’s listening to this who is an LGBT business owner; is there something that you’re looking for? Is there any particular piece of information around information, specifically to the LGBT community that you are looking for that you yourself cannot seem to kind of get a handle on? Because I know when I talk and I address the LGBT audience and the allies because a lot of you- it’s a mix of who’s listening. But at the end of the day the principles of selling, marketing, communicating to the LGBT consumer is the same whether you are or are not part of the community. But in this book I want to talk about just being a business owner and what that means to you, and does it mean anything to you as an identity piece? Like you have two identities. You have your identity as a business owner, and you have an identity as being LGBT. So do you consider being an LGBT business owner also an identity? And if so, have you found challenges with that? Have you found benefits that come with that? Have you found hurdles or hiccups or bumps in the road that have occurred? And if so, what are they? Because I kind of really address as many of those types of things as I can in this book. So this book is going to be, I think, much harder for me to write because it’s going to require a lot of additional research. Versus my other two books where it’s very marketing focused. So I have two degrees in Communications and Marketing, so you know to me that type of stuff is really easy to kind of wrap my head around and get a handle on. And then the second book was really just Communications and that’s just really where my expertise is, so that was fairly easy to come off with as well. But this one, you know I have my own thoughts and experiences and feelings around what it means to be an LGBT business owner and the ways in which you can leverage that for your business. But I know what I know, but I don’t know what you know. And I really want to know it so I can include it in this book.

I would love to hear from you!

So this is a call to action to you to just kind of reach out to me and let me know what your thoughts are. And if you’re on my mailing list I love it, thank you; and I’m hoping to send out a couple of emails just quick little surveys that say, “Hey, just provide me with what you know.” And I’m more than happy to give you the eBook version of it for absolutely free, once it does become available which I’m hoping will be available by August of 2015. That’s usually between July and August is usually my release timeframe for my new books. So I’m happy to give you a copy of the book if you are willing to help contribute to what is discussed.

In conclusion..

So that is that. So I’m really looking forward to hearing from you on a variety of topics as you can see. My call to action generally speaking today is just reach out and let’s have a conversation, which is typically the case. So that is my excitement.

And I don’t want to take up any more time than necessary because we’re at about probably just over a half an hour, under forty minutes or so. And this is actually for me, a shorter podcast than usual. So I’m not going to just bore you and take up your time just for the sake of taking up space so I’ll give you a couple of minutes back in your day. But like I said a handful of times, just reach out to me for any reason whatsoever and let’s have a dialogue about anything that I brought up today that is on your mind. So I hope that you continue to have a lovely December and year end, and hopefully things are going well. And I will talk to you in the next episode. Thank you so much for listening and I will talk to you soon.

About Jenn T. Grace

Jenn T. Grace (she/her/hers) is an award-winning author and founder and CEO of Publish Your Purpose (PYP), the acclaimed hybrid publisher of non-fiction books. Jenn has published 100+ books written by thought leaders, visionaries, and entrepreneurs who are striving to make a difference. Jenn T. Grace’s work elevates and amplifies the voices of others—especially marginalized groups who are regularly excluded from traditional publishing.

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